Law enforcement issued 9mm to weak or strong enough?
Topic: Beretta shotgun case soft time
July 17, 2019 / By Zack Question:
i am not in law enforcement but i am in the Corps and an officer i carry a .45 in addition to my M16 and i would think that if i was a cop i would want something stronger than a 9mm glock. I would think you are out gunned most of the time what do you guys think.
Best Answers: Law enforcement issued 9mm to weak or strong enough?
Shimei | 10 days ago
9mm is adequate for general police use, proven record, know performance, known training time issue- same as Army adapting 9mm Beretta. Police forces in many areas getting officer recruits without firearms experience, in a state like New York young people discouraged from learning to shoot and especially with women officer trainees the instructor has to start from beginning and complete training in relatively short time. 9mm compares favorably to old .38 special police standard, selfloading duty pistols - like Glock that are double column feed carrying twice the ammo as revolver so new officers can shoot more(spray mostly) . 9mm rate about 350 foot/lb energy level at muzzle, .45 a bit better so not that big a deal until you compare old Hatcher stopping power results- .45 wins. A police recruit with Marine training could probably carry .45 as 'backup' gun- this was old Cook County sherrif dept policy - 'Duty' weapon was required to be 'chamber .38 special' so a Colt police positive with 4 inch barrel fit. the 'optional backup' could be any gun the armorer sad was safe, the 1911 was noted as 'accepted as known safe' so could be carried with no hassle. Revolver had to be qualified with but basicly became backup, utility and off duty gun. 9mm with 116 grain NATO load good for car door penetration, ammo is relatively cheap for training, 125 grain SAAMI spec soft point about as good as .38 same weight, maybe a bit better- close to +P .38 load. If police figure they'll be outgunned with 9mm duty pistol then they should take duty 12 bore shotgun with them, or in some cruisers a .223 rifle or carbine is available. another issue is liability of city for over penetration, ricochets- cities sometime won't allow penetrating ammo so standard 9mm looks better in court- 'the officers had standard sporting 125 soft point ammo, not armor piercing rounds, city not negligent, dismiss case of bystander wounded by gross negligence of city'. 115 grain hollow points that function also good choice. Edit- Mo-Dean: North hollywood? If i'm thinking of same incident of robbers wearing armor- LA police had had the vehicle piercing ammo taken away about a month before the incident bcause of a law suit from a over penetrate case- bullet went through body of suspect and hit innocent bystander? Sherrif dept in area had the armor piercing ammo in seperate clips on their belts for use in roadblocks or fire at vehicle times, didn't get called to scene as LA city police were responding quick. Supposedly a fireing test was done 2 months after incident- the Sherrif dept ammo did pierce the armored vest. Ammo restricted as 'cop killer', lot of paper work to get it, has to be ordered dept only and a state authority has to co-sign order before shipped.
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Originally Answered: Can you please grade my essay and tell me my weak and strong points?
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Adolescence is the most difficult stage in a person's life.” Whilst there is some truth in that statement, the difficulties we face are not exclusive to the teenage years. Complications can arise though at any point in our lifetime.
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There are a couple different schools of thought on this, and each has different opinions.
With that being said, I would not want to carry a 9mm for a duty or protection firearm. While it is entirely possible to incapacitate someone with a hollowpoint 9mm, a 45acp hollowpoint can do the job much easier.
The 9mm is a relatively small and fast bullet, meaning that even with a hollowpoint it does not transfer a great deal of energy into it's target. The 45 on the other hand, is large, heavy and slow thus transfering more energy into the target. You do (generally) have greater ammo capacity with a 9mm, but you'll more than likely have to use an extra bullet or two on your subject.
Long story short, there is a reason why an overwhelming number of law enforcement agencies and military are phasing out the 9mm in favor of the 40 S&W, 45 ACP and 357 Sig.
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I have a Springfield 1911 A-1 and a Carbine M-4 along with a shotgun in my squad. So I'm not doing too bad. But I'm also one of two Officers for 12,000 people in a 36 square mile area so I have to have to be ready for just about anything.
Trooper is right, many Departments phased out the 9mm in the mid 90's as the 45ACP began to make a comeback because of complaints of the 9mm being too weak of a round. Later, S&W made to .40cal as an "In-between" round to accomidate those that had problems handling and accurately shooting the larger .45ACP round.
Silly World-Were're happy you're feeling safe in Canada. But being outgunned down here is nothing of what you listed and isn't because citizens have a right to own guns. The Criminals down here, like some of the ones up in the great White North, don't obey the law and hanve been found to have sub-machine guns, sawed off shotguns and other guns that are illegal for them to possess. And for some reason, they don't care about hitting innocent by-standers or have leaders that too cheap to provide them with an adequate weapon or have use of weapons that the public would consider too "threatening"
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The 9mm is a better weapon than the old .38s the cops used to have. More punch, faster to load, more accurate and easier to handle.
For many criminals the 9mm is the weapon of choice as many are readily available and going back 10 years ago they were better than the cops guns. The 9mm also has a better loadout available (more choices in ammo). The 45 was not chosen by many forces due to weight and size (kinda hard to sit in a cruiser with a huge hunk of metal on your side) and who knows what other reasons.
Although I think a .45 cal would make a decent stopping machine as the hole it leaves is quite large. hit an arm with it and it is basically a useless appendage.
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Anyone in the Military would know that the .45 replaced the .38 because of it's knock down power. It's not the manufacturer, but the load. Any bullet will kill, but it has been known that a 9mm will bounce off a windshield. Most Officers liked the 9 because of all the rounds they could carry. I preferred the .44 or .45. One shot, and I could go for coffee.
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I think it isn't the weapon or the caliber; rather survival lies in the training and tactics of the shooter.
However, I have heard the stories of suspects on PCP who stayed on their feet after taking a round through the heart from a 9mm. That said, the interesting thing about most bad guys is, they think they are immortal.
I have also seen people die after being shot with a .22 in what I would call a non-lethal area.
curmudgeon 1955 - You are so right. That was the exact policy of the Department I work for... until the North Hollywood shootout. You hit it right on the nose. It isn't about officer safety, it is all about City liability.
👍 64 | 👎 -10
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👍 55 | 👎 -14
The 45 calibre is a powerful stopping target pistol though it has a lot of recourse so the 40 calibre is much better for accurate target shooting along with multiple times in succession
👍 46 | 👎 -18
you said it...the reasons for using 9mm are more ergonomic than practical...you need to fire multiple rounds before the target even knows he's being shot, unlike anything bigger than a .357
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Originally Answered: How can a weak girl defend herself when she's in trouble with a strong man?
The best defense against attack by any man is avoidance. Don't allow yourself to be in compromising situations if at all possible. The fact is that if a man wants something from a female, he'll get it. You can spend your life studying and practicing martial arts, but there is no technique that will allow you to defend against a much larger and stronger person who is willing to endure pain and suffering to get what he wants from you.
Females are, by virtue of everything from temperament to physical prowess to socialization, not able to successfully defend against males. If the man wants what he wants bad enough, he will get it unless you make it physically impossible for him. That means you must kill or disable him. And, it's best to try to use talk first and physical counter-measures last. However, if you cannot possible avoid physical confrontation, try to gouge out both eye with both thumbs, then grab something big and heavy and beat him with it in the face or head, then run like hell screaming "fire" if it will help summon support. Don't bother trying for the groin. It's not effective.
Good luck and good health!!