Pre-Trib rapture believers - why do you believe this view?
Topic: How to write a short news article
May 22, 2019 / By Ophir Question:
I was raised with the Pre-Trib view, but now believe the Pre-Wrath view of the rapture. We will go through the tribulation - Satan's wrath, but it will be cut short near the end of the 70th week of Daniel, we will be raptured, then God's wrath will come.
If you list verses, please explain why these verses must teach pre-trib and not pre-wrath or post-trib. Thanks.
Ruth - You said Jesus spoke to all. Matthew 24 seems to say that we will be here for the time of the Antichrist. How do you interpret this chapter?
Fireball226 - please look at the context of the verse you mentioned - Luke 21:36.
Luke 21:12,16 indicates that many believers will be persecuted, and some will be put to death. Matthew 24:7-9 indicates that it is after the beginning of birth pains that many will be persecuted and put to death.
There are clear parallels between Jesus' Olivet Discourse and the events associated with the first six seals of the scroll in Revelation—the latter which, most agree, will take place during the 70th Week.
It is true that God has not appointed the righteous to wrath. However, the Pre-tribulation view of the Rapture presumes that the entire seven years will be composed of God's wrath. In fact, it is not even until after the Sixth Seal is opened (Revelation 6:16,17) that the word "wrath" appears in the Book of Revelation.
It is at this point - AFTER the cosmic disturbances (sun turns dark, moon turns red, etc.) have begun that unbelievers realize God's wrath is imminent.
MT4Grace - Thank you for your input. Several of your points were very good in showing why the Pre-Trib view has some difficulties. You said you don't quite understand the Pre-Wrath view. If you check out prewrathrapture.com, on the bar at the top go to About - What is Prewrath. It is a very good explanation - not too long and not too short.
As for Mid-Trib, the Bible talks about Satan, the Beast, and the false prophet persecuting the people of God during the Second Half. That is part of the reason that I can't agree with Mid-Trib. Thanks for the input though.
Virginia B - Do you believe the entire 7 year period is a time of God's wrath? The first 3.5 years is a time of peace (not wrath). Then comes the antichrist's wrath, which is cut short by God's wrath towards the end of the 7 years. All of the trib views believe we will not suffer God's wrath. Pre-Trib, Mid-Trib, and Pre-Wrath all say we will be removed before God's wrath. Post-Trib I think teaches we will be here, but protected from it.
Best Answers: Pre-Trib rapture believers - why do you believe this view?
Laz | 8 days ago
I honestly don' understand pre-wrath, but here's what I have found that supports a rapture in the middle of the tribulation. As to another comment, it does matter to me in different ways, that I study to show myself approved, that I mislead no one trying to learn and understand, and that I can correctly interpret the Word of God and use it as a witness to bring people to Christ that would otherwise not listen.
The reasoning here for mid trib (that I find) is in Daniel 12:1-3. Actually, it starts at the end of chapter 11 in which the king (AKA Antichrist) plants his tabernacles in the holy mountain. Next verse is that at that time, angel Michael will stand up for Daniel's people and there will be tribulation such as never was on the earth... and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Also check Dan 9:24-27 about how the AC will confirm a treaty for 7 years and then break it midway.
Then check out Revelation 10:7, "But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets." Read through the 7 seals and 7 trumpets and find that it mentions a lot the use of the words 'whose names are not written in the book of life) then look at the vials and the woes after 10:7 and find that that specific terminology is no longer mentioned. Where's the one - at the sound of the trump the dead will rise? Here we have mention of which trumpet.
Look up mystery of God and find all references to it in scripture and find that the church (bought by the blood of Jesus through faith under grace) is the mystery.
Don't forget 2 Thessalonians 2:2-4;the end of 2 says .. as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means, for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first and that man if sin be revealed, the son of perdition, who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God...
In 1 Thess we are told that the day of the Lord comes as a thief in the night but we are not in darkness that it should catch us unawares.
I take the Word of God and line up the news articles today that match and show that God was not lying nor playing and the Bible is true. I use this information to try to interest people who might otherwise not care about Jesus or listen, however, if they find that God is not a liar and start looking in the Word they will find they need my savior, Jesus Christ. That's my prayer in what I do. I will not say I know for sure this is the right way, I was also raised pre-trib rapture.
Matthew 24 is Jesus talking to His disciples in a private meeting. He was not only talking to them as Jews, but to them as His followers. We are His followers, so we also can take what He said to be directly to us. I think that's what Ruth was meaning, or at least what I was meaning when we were sitting at the kitchen table the other day!!! :-) He was also not talking directly about the early church, but instead was discussing the signs of His second coming and the end of the world as we know it. This is important to those who would say He was talking to the early church, because they did, indeed, suffer many of those same kinds of things shortly after His ascension. However, the question asked was what are the signs of your return and the end of the world? We cannot take His answer to mean any other time in history.
Some would take the information in Daniel and say it was only meant for Jewish people, not for Christians. But I have been given a promise that Abraham is my father, too. He is the beginning of my faith as well, so I would argue that point. :-)
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Originally Answered: When believers face the last judgement, their sins are not mentioned, their works or lack of is in view?
Believers "works" will be Judged at The Judgment Seat Of Christ. 1 Corinthians 3 (Amplified Bible) 11For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is [already] laid, which is Jesus Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One).
12But if anyone builds upon the Foundation, whether it be with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,
13The work of each [one] will become [plainly, openly] known (shown for what it is); for the day [of Christ] will disclose and declare it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test and critically appraise the character and worth of the work each person has done.
14If the work which any person has built on this Foundation [any product of his efforts whatever] survives [this test], he will get his reward.
15But if any person's work is burned up [under the test], he will suffer the loss [of it all, losing his reward], though he himself will be saved, but only as [one who has passed] through fire.
2 Corinthians 5 (Amplified Bible) 10For we must all appear and be revealed as we are before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive [his pay] according to what he has done in the body, whether good or evil [considering [a]what his purpose and motive have been, and what he has [b]achieved, been busy with, and given himself and his attention to accomplishing].
Romans 14 (Amplified Bible) 10Why do you criticize and pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you look down upon or despise your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of God. 11For it is written, As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to Me, and every tongue shall confess to God [acknowledge Him to His honor and to His praise]. 12And so each of us shall give an account of himself [give an answer in reference to judgment] to God.
1 Peter 5 (Amplified Bible)
4And [then] when the Chief Shepherd is revealed, you will win the [a]conqueror's crown of glory.
2 Timothy 4 (Amplified Bible) 8[As to what remains] henceforth there is laid up for me the [victor's] crown of righteousness [for being right with God and doing right], which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me and recompense me on that [great] day--and not to me only, but also to all those who have loved and yearned for and welcomed His appearing (His return).
+++" Question: "What is the Judgment Seat of Christ / Bema Seat of Christ?"
Answer: Romans 14:10-12 says, “For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat…so then, each of us will give an account of himself to God.” Second Corinthians 5:10 tells us, “For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.” In the context, it is clear that both scriptures are referring to Christians, not unbelievers. The judgment seat of Christ, therefore, involves believers giving an account of their lives to Christ. The judgment seat of Christ does not determine salvation; that was determined by Christ’s sacrifice on our behalf (1 John 2:2) and our faith in Him (John 3:16). All of our sins are forgiven, and we will never be condemned for them (Romans 8:1). We should not look at the judgment seat of Christ as God judging our sins, but rather as God rewarding us for our lives. Yes, as the Bible says, we will have to give an account of ourselves. Part of this is surely answering for the sins we committed. However, that is not going to be the primary focus of the judgment seat of Christ.
At the judgment seat of Christ, believers are rewarded based on how faithfully they served Christ (1 Corinthians 9:4-27; 2 Timothy 2:5). Some of the things we might be judged on are how well we obeyed the Great Commission (Matthew 28:18-20), how victorious we were over sin (Romans 6:1-4), and how well we controlled our tongues (James 3:1-9). The Bible speaks of believers receiving crowns for different things based on how faithfully they served Christ (1 Corinthians 9:4-27; 2 Timothy 2:5). The various crowns are described in 2 Timothy 2:5, 2 Timothy 4:8, James 1:12, 1 Peter 5:4, and Revelation 2:10. James 1:12 is a good summary of how we should think about the judgment seat of Christ: “Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him.”
Because we are dispensationalists. If you look at the Bible, for each dispensation there is a clear end/beginning. We believe we are currently living in the post-apostolic Church age. There are three places the Tribulation is specifically discussed: Daniel, Matthew and Revelation.
Dispensationalists believe that Daniel wrote to Jews, John (Revelation) wrote to Christians and Jesus wrote to all. We believe Scripture must be interpreted in this light. I recently learned a very good mid-trib argument using all three sources. I do not think you can explain the milennial reign of Christ using a post-trib rapture theory.
Another thing I recently learned: From Abraham to Jesus, 1948 years, and the Temple destroyed 70 years later. From Jesus to the re-establishment of the nation of Israel is 1948 years. If you add Daniel's 70 years, you get 2018. If you take away the 7 year tribulation, you get 2011... Just interesting for speculation, since we might be missing years, but I think this was done using the Jewish calendar.
Edit: Clearly, the "Mystery of God (the Church)" must close. The issue is what the ultimate purpose of allowing the tribulation is from God's perspective. Yes, He allows Satan to have free reign, but God is going to reconcile the Jews to Jesus. He has never forgotten them and has promised a remnant. I do believe we may see persecution, but I believe the tribulation is not about us. If we are here, we will simply be hunted and killed and that is all. I cannot mesh it with my understanding of the anti-christ coming to bring "peace."
I also cannot mesh the Great Commission with this time period, if we are only here to be hunted and killed, and that is a problem for me.
Our understanding of II Thess. 2 is that the Holy Spirit will operate differently, as in a new dispensation. Perhaps the only thing of God here will be His Word, and perhaps that is why there are things in there which do not have specific application to us.
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I believe it because we are the temple of the Holy Spirit. If we had to go through just one day of God's wrath in the tribulation period, then the Holy Spirit would have to experience it too, and that's impossible. It is for this reason that I believe those who have been born again by His Spirit, will be taken out (raptured) before God's wrath is poured out. God bless!!!
(Add - I do believe the entire 7-year period is the period of God's wrath. In the letter to the church of Philadelphia, Jesus promised to keep those who have kept the word of His patience "from" the hour of temptation, this doesn't say "through", it says "from". All but "one week" or "7 years" of Daniel 9 has been fulfilled, and this one week or period of 7 years has been predetermined by God to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins (v. 24) It is this verse which I believe supports that the tribulation period will be for a total of 7 years, the last 3 1/2 years of which will be worse than the first 3 1/2 years, nevertheless a preset time of 7 years has been determined by God.)
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A cross reference from Matthew 24 is in Daniel 12:1. It explains anyone written in the Book of Life will be rescued. 1 Thessolonians 5:9 says christians are not destine for wrath to come. Matthew 24 is speaking of the people that are saved AFTER the Rapture. Some people will be saved, probably immediately...after all they have heard about this alot and ignored salvation. After the Rapture what do you think they will think....Uh Oh I guess the christians were right.
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First, answer to your question:
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Secondly, the 70 weeks of Daniel are completed. Abba's wrath will be accomplished 'in one day'. But pre-wrath is pretty close to the truth.
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I disagree along with your "analyze"---That Harlot driving that "Ten Headed Beast " Is Apostate faith. devil continually attempt to ruin the Jew:----Israel will settle for its promised Possesion ,From River Nile to the River Euraphrates in comming 1000 twelve months Mill. Eze. and Rev. The Church by no ability replaced Israel as to the Phyiscal Land grant. various Denominations will could desire to alter their Dogma, You reported Daniel became conversing approximately Herod"s temple and 70 A.D. Why did God tell Daniel Seal up your e book until eventually the time of the tip,while know-how would be bigger.
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Originally Answered: Proving that miracles DO happen. So please answer believers and non believers, part 2?
A few years ago a young man goes up to a group of local Hell's Angels and addresses all by name and tells each something that is very personal. The leader is today the pastor of the local Christian Motor Cycle club - you can attend his session anytime.
This is why God is so wonderful - your story is mind blowing and very special!
I am privileged for this is an almost weekly occurrence but never fails to blow my hair back!
The senior surgeon at our big private (expensive) hospital informs the parents in front of the young 12 year old boy that after opening him up, he was sewn right up again because the cancer was so bad that he had only a few weeks to live. The young boy declares "this cannot be, it is not what God has planned for me'. The surgeon apparently looked at him as if he was god - the boy obviously didn't know what he was talking about - he had, after all, years of experience.
Well, two weeks later the surgeon who never had even more than 10minutes for anyone calls the boy's dad in and gives his life to the Lord during a two hour Q&A session, just based on the lad's testimonies and the fact that he was miraculously healed. That boy's dad is the head of my old church and his son can be seen three years later in perfect testimony health, so can the surgeon at the services.
God is awesome!
Oh yes.. his testimony and all the medical evidence has been authenticated and documented being now available on Christian TV.