My teacher says that Mozart was a better composer than Beethoven?
Topic: How to write a rock song on the piano
May 26, 2019 / By Abilene Question:
Yesterday in my music class at college, my music teacher who has a bacherlor degree in music performance on piano, a master in compostion and a phd in music. Tells the class how Beethoven was inferior to Mozart as a composer. He starts out by talking about the usual arguments, such as Mozart wrote 55 symphonies, Beethoven 9 etc etc. Then he goes on to sit at the piano and plunk away at the piano with an insulting look as mochs Beethoven sympony 7 in A major, and takes one finger and plunks away playing the melody in the opening, I got so mad, that is almost misrepresentation, first off Beethoven never wrote it with the idea of someone playing the melody only on the piano, he wrote it with the whole symphony in mind, and listen to how the music slowly builds in the actual piece to reach a cresendo its as beautiful as anything I ever heard from Mozart 55 symponies. Also its how you look at it. If you look striclty at melody as to what makes a composer great that is one thing. But if you look at how the piece sounds as a whole, then fur elise, 5th symphony moon light sonata among others can stand up to Mozart. I don't care if he Mozart was a child prodigy, to me it seems that Mozart never reached the depth of romantic or passionate character that Beethoven reached, it seems as if Beethoven reached deeper, he wasn't only concerned about melody, or balance, but other factors such as emotion, passion etc. I aknowledge that Mozart is considered one of the greatest composers ever, but I feel and many others do also that Beethoven should be right up there with Mozart as far as composing goes. Beethoven symphonies were thought to be much more in depth and complext than Mozart's. Does the 9 then =the 55 not sure, but I would rather listen to Beethoven's best 12 pieces any day over Mozart best 12 pieces, with the exception of the Requiem in D minor, which to me shows the most emotion and soul of Mozart pieces.
Best Answers: My teacher says that Mozart was a better composer than Beethoven?
Sweeney | 3 days ago
Beethoven borrowed numerous ideas from Mozart, but here are some ideas which Beethoven came up with all on his own:
■ Elimination of orchestral introduction in the concerto (Beethoven fourth piano concerto. Mozart hinted at this in the Jeunehomme Concerto.)
■ Second theme in the major mode, then in the minor mode (violin concerto). In the A major cello sonata, we hear the first theme first in the major mode, then a variation of that theme in the parallel minor.
■ The reverse: second theme in the minor mode, then in the major mode (Emperor Concerto).
■ The first movement of the third piano concerto is in c minor. The second movement is in E major instead of the expected Eb major. Since E is the third tone of the C major scale whereas Eb is the third tone of the c minor scale, this provides greater relief from the minor modality.
Brahms follows Beethoven's example in his first symphony.
Beethoven makes a similar choice in the Emperor Concerto, in which the first movement is in Eb major and the second movement is in B major.
■ In a sense, Beethoven forebode rock-and-roll music 200 years early. In many of his piano sonatas, he contrasts a less smooth first theme with a steady and legato second theme (f minor sonata, op. 2 no. 1, first movement at ms. 20; A major sonata, op. 2 no. 2, first movement at ms. 59; C major sonata, op. 2 no. 3, fourth movement at ms. 30; "Little Pathetique" Sonata, op. 10 no. 1, first movement at ms. 56; D major sonata, op. 10 no. 3, first movement at ms. 23; "Pastorale" sonata in D major, op. 28, first movement at ms. 76; g minor sonata, op. 49 no. 1, first movement at ms. 16, second movement at ms. 20).
The Queen hit song "We are the Champions," the Beatle song "When I'm 64," and the Beatle song "Girl" all follow this formula.
■ Beethoven seems to have invented the idea of introducing a figure in the harmony or counterpoint of a second or third theme and continuing that figure in the restatement of the main theme. In the second movement of the "Pathetique" Sonata, triplets are introduced in the C theme at ms. 37. A first-time listener would expect him to discontinue these triplets in time for the restatement, but instead, they continue in ms. 51.
The Romantic composers copied this neat little trick. Witness the recapitulation in the Mendelssohn violin concerto. In the slow movement of the Tchaikovsky piano concerto, the slow movement of Tchaikovsky's fourth symphony, and the slow movement of the Franck d minor symphony, the main theme is restated this way.
■ Beethoven also worked another trick similar to this one. Here, instead of continuing an accompanying figure, he continues a figure in the soprano voice. In the second movement of the G major sonata, op. 49 no. 2, the second theme ends on dotted rhythms in ms. 42-47. These fit with the dotted rhythms of the main theme in ms. 48.
The sneaky restatement in Fur Elise is even more ingenious. The opening theme begins with a minor second toggle. The third theme ends with a descending chromatic scale in ms. 83-84. This fits like a glove with the restatement on ms. 85. I wonder which element he thought of first, the chromatic scale or the minor second toggle.
■ If Beethoven was not the inventor of "thematic links," he was certainly one of the earliest pioneers. In the Pathetique Sonata, the first four notes in the second theme of the first movement and the first theme of the third movement match. In the Moonlight Sonata, a c# minor arpeggio begins both the first and third movements. In the Fifth Symphony, the four-note motif begins the first and third movements.
■ Not to be confused with thematic links is the "cyclical form," in which a theme from one movement is repeated wholesale in a later movement. In his Fifth Symphony, Beethoven restates the third movement in the fourth movement. Franck, Dvorak, Berlioz, and Tchaikovsky followed his example.
■ In the Appassionata Sonata and in his Fifth Symphony, the second theme is in the relative major in the exposition and in the tonic major in the recapitulation. Tchaikovsky did the same thing in the Pathetique Symphony.
■ In his e minor piano sonata, op. 90, the first theme is in the dominant minor in the exposition and the tonic minor in the recapitulation. Mendelssohn did the same thing in the Scottish Symphony.
■ Beethoven likes to shock the listener by starting the recapitulation in the wrong key. Then, halfway through the first theme which is being recapitulated, he modulates to the right key. He does this in his F major sonata, op. 10 no. 2, and in his F# major sonata, op. 78.
■ Mozart wrote several piano sonatas in which a new theme is introduced at the beginning of the development, but Beethoven's Eroica Symphony is probably the first case of a new theme beginning later in the development. Mendelssohn borrows this idea, and to good effect, in his Italian Symphony.
■ It seems to be commonly agreed that Beethoven invented the third-movement scherzo. Dvorak wrote several third-movement scherzos of his own, and lovely scherzos they are, too!
About the second theme from the Seventh Symphony: it seems that Beethoven wrote a deliberately drab melody in order not to overstimulate us when he adds the exquisite harmony and counterpoint. Compare this with the Eroica Variations and the second theme from the Waldstein Sonata.
No other composer has written deliberately mundade melodies in order to compensate for a stimulating treatement of that theme because no other composer could afford to.
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We found more questions related to the topic: How to write a rock song on the piano
Originally Answered: What are the notes to Minuet by Beethoven?
I am afraid we don't do 'the notes' here. Why would we want to spend all that time? Merely having a string of letters tells you nothing about how to play the music. Even if I just give you 'A' - how do you know which 'A' to play? How do you know how long the notes are? Or how loud they are? Or what harmony is needed? Or what rhythm is required? You can't tell any of these things. That's what musical notation is for.
You really should learn to read music. Musical family or not, it's really not that difficult (very young children can do it - therefore, so can you). Once you have mastered this small task (and it's a LOT easier than learning to read and write), you will have the whole musical world at your fingertips.
And by the way, 'a lot' is two words. Do you also write 'abit'?
Well, he was VERY biased and unfair in the way he argued for Mozart.
Personally, I think Beethoven was TONS better than Mozart. Beethoven was a child prodigy also. He'd written THIS at the age of 12!!
And thats only half of the first movement! Beethoven was... just amazing. And he was deaf for the majority of his life too! When he was young, he used to climb into the bottom of the piano and feel the sound in the vibrations. When he was too big for that, he used to use a wooden broom handle, rest it between the piano and his chest, and feel the vibrations that way as he played. He wrote some fantastic stiff that sadly, he couldn't actually hear in his ears. He was a genius. (:
Mozart was good too. But I'm more into the drama and passion of Beethoven. :D
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Del is quite right... there are no criteria by which to judge the relative merits of the two men. Mozart wrote music that at times is miraculously close to perfection, to quote Salieri from "Amadeus" - "...displace one note and there would be diminishment..."
Beethoven's music was forged in the composers will, hammered out by his emotion and angst. He took liberties with 'the rules.' From a purely structural standpoint, Mozart's music is (with Haydn's) a model of the Classical style.
There is little to be gained by such comparisons. It better to appreciate the music for what it is and realize that it is fixed in time and could not have been created at any other time in history other that its own.
(I believe that Mozart only wrote 41 symphonies and a couple of those are under debated ownership).
I also think it is a mistake to ascribe a dispassionate character to Mozart's music... if you listen to the adagios of several of his late piano concertos for example, you'll see that they are deeply emotional.
The general concensus from most commentators is that Beethoven is the most important composer in history... his influence still felt today (only Bach is a rival to that opinion). Mozart is regarded as an almost divine because of the beauty and perfection of his music... coupled with his wonderful facility with melody.
Your teacher is entitled to his opinion, but you might point out that there are many informed opinions that do not share his view.
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Everyone has their own opinions on everything. It is not a fact that Beethoven is better but I think he is. Maybe Mozart is better than him in some ways. Didn't Mozart just make 41 symphonies?
👍 56 | 👎 -15
I suppose its all opinion really. Historically, Mozart is regarded as the greatest composer as though it is fact. Its just one of those things, but at the end of the day, it is all opinion.
Personally, I think Schubert is better than them both.
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Originally Answered: Most Underrated Composer? What do you think?
Quite some time ago, I asked a series of questions such as yours; in which 29 composers were covered.
Thought you might be interested in reviewing some of them. The below link is to the last one in the series: